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Foxxx
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:22 am

Reroll to MW2 or bfbc2, Lineage is dead now cheers
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:46 pm

Foxxx wrote:
Reroll to MW2 or bfbc2, Lineage is dead now cheers

Foxxx, me > you anytime Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sat May 01, 2010 1:39 am

Sonnic wrote:
Fury wrote:
I was wondering, do you really think that in autumn L2 will still be attractive?

No L2 stopped being attractive since 1-2 years but there are still people playing it, so yea.

Well said holmes, couldn't have pointed it out better
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sat May 01, 2010 8:46 am

I have never played at perfect L2j server. So i m waiting to see how things turn out. I have played on relapse and know it staff. I know that they can make perfect server with unique ideas. So dont disapoint us again like on relapse.
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sat May 01, 2010 10:06 am

You dissappointed us on relapse, not we ...

L2 isnt dead, there are plenty of servers opening every day. MMO's arent dead either. There are mainly two problems which most of you cant probably see.

1)There wasnt any peak in MMO gaming 2 years ago. Two years ago was your peak. You tend to believe that a game peaks, when you peak yourself. C4, interlude and all that crappy server efforts, have their source on your false belief that they were the good chronicles. They werent. They were the chronicles that you achieved your bests. To prove that, i will point out that 99% of you, have made the worst possible server choices. For example, if you play in L2MXC you are not just out of your peak, but WAAAAY out of your peak, and noob also Smile.

2)The populaiton problem, comes from the fact that there are COUNTLESS of servers opening every day, and COUNTLESS of MMO games getting published also. MMO gaming is a fucking huge pie. And everyone wants to eat part of it. In L2 we got the mainstream servers that have around 700 ppl, and we have the noob-servers having 30-50. THe problem are the noobservers. With 4000 noob servers around, and everyone having on average 30 ppl, you easily understand where is all the population going.

The same thing happens in general MMO Gaming, there are so many mmos with slightly different tastes that divide the ppl. Those two problems come from two sides, two main factors:

a)Players who have ZERO ability to understand what game or what server to play, falling always in the trick of "big words".

b)Game Developers, Game Owners/Managers, Server owners, who are unbelievably talented at making BAD servers.

I can guarantee you one thing, category b wont change. They do it for sheer profit, they dont give a fuck about game quality as long as people move like sheep. THe only way this problem will get fixed, is if stupid-ass players ( most of you Smile ) start demanding good servers, and not hopping in every shit that opens. You are the food for that problem, cut off the food and things will go back to normal.


To sum up:

Player: "OMG lets join L2blabla, that cool clan will play there. "
Admin: "OMG those noobs are coming like a pack of sheep. Cool, i wont have to make any effort Smile ".

Thats what barelly happens,
from someone that has been both a player and a server developer/admin.

And to sum up even more, have you played any of the following servers ?

1)L2MXC.
2)L2Inc ( the new one ).
3)L2Signs ( the new one ).
4)L2forever ( the new one ).

If you have, then sorry but truth is , you are a bigass noob Smile
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sat May 01, 2010 1:10 pm

Quote :
You dissappointed us on relapse, not we ...

there are two types of servers:
1, mainly lowrates, SUCCESS OF THE SERVER DEPENDS ON PLAYERS, in case they wont make 2 or more competetive sides (factors) in every field (epics, olympiad, hellbound, wards, gracia), server dies. admins are just supervising.

2, mainly highrates, SUCCESS OF THE SERVER DEPENDS ON ADMINS, in case they fail with attracting players to log in (with new features, events and all this crap), server dies.


you talk about stupid players because you work with second category, you work with l2j, high rates and custom features. who plays on such servers? yeah. hello d4v1d. you WONT have smart, mature community on l2j high rate server. normal players want challenge, politics, drama. lineage 2 on good, populated lowrate is a really good game, and its getting better and better every chronicle. also its balanced. (i dont say ncsoft doesnt make mistakes, they do).

it werent players who failed on relapse, it was you. what surprises me the most is that instead of actually fixing the worst shit, you kept feeding the most stupid players that are like alice in the wonderland in L2 with all those useless eyecandy features.
you obviously WANT stupid players, because they raise the online count. dont complain about having them then.



agree on mmorpgs peak. i love these justmadeupfacts, sup Fino.



damn im such a meanie today
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sat May 01, 2010 9:01 pm

Issle wrote:
You dissappointed us on relapse, not we ...

L2 isnt dead, there are plenty of servers opening every day. MMO's arent dead either. There are mainly two problems which most of you cant probably see.

1)There wasnt any peak in MMO gaming 2 years ago. Two years ago was your peak. You tend to believe that a game peaks, when you peak yourself. C4, interlude and all that crappy server efforts, have their source on your false belief that they were the good chronicles. They werent. They were the chronicles that you achieved your bests. To prove that, i will point out that 99% of you, have made the worst possible server choices. For example, if you play in L2MXC you are not just out of your peak, but WAAAAY out of your peak, and noob also Smile.

2)The populaiton problem, comes from the fact that there are COUNTLESS of servers opening every day, and COUNTLESS of MMO games getting published also. MMO gaming is a fucking huge pie. And everyone wants to eat part of it. In L2 we got the mainstream servers that have around 700 ppl, and we have the noob-servers having 30-50. THe problem are the noobservers. With 4000 noob servers around, and everyone having on average 30 ppl, you easily understand where is all the population going.

The same thing happens in general MMO Gaming, there are so many mmos with slightly different tastes that divide the ppl. Those two problems come from two sides, two main factors:

a)Players who have ZERO ability to understand what game or what server to play, falling always in the trick of "big words".


b)Game Developers, Game Owners/Managers, Server owners, who are unbelievably talented at making BAD servers.

I can guarantee you one thing, category b wont change. They do it for sheer profit, they dont give a fuck about game quality as long as people move like sheep. THe only way this problem will get fixed, is if stupid-ass players ( most of you Smile ) start demanding good servers, and not hopping in every shit that opens. You are the food for that problem, cut off the food and things will go back to normal.


To sum up:

Player: "OMG lets join L2blabla, that cool clan will play there. "
Admin: "OMG those noobs are coming like a pack of sheep. Cool, i wont have to make any effort Smile ".

Thats what barelly happens,
from someone that has been both a player and a server developer/admin.

And to sum up even more, have you played any of the following servers ?

1)L2MXC.
2)L2Inc ( the new one ).
3)L2Signs ( the new one ).
4)L2forever ( the new one ).

If you have, then sorry but truth is , you are a bigass noob Smile

I have to agree in the biggest part of that post, but in the first one I have to say that like 2 years ago, actually half of my school m8s played L2 and other MMORPG , now not even the 1/4 of that school m8s still plays. That proves that the games' circle reached its top and now it's dropping. I don't believe that it's a nostalgia thing to return back on a chronicle that passed cuz you achieved everything as a player, but because of it's prons and cons. At the very least, some doesn't want to see kamaels running around . It's a part of the gameplay.

So for me it's not a tendency to return back because I was good but ,to be honest, because the server and the chronicle has it's own benefits.
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sat May 01, 2010 9:03 pm

Quote :
it werent players who failed on relapse, it was you.

When we stopped developing relapse ( siege and me ), around end of christmas, it had average 500-600. The balance team, that was the plan for our quitting. I gave full rights to players in the balance team ( and i knew they would fail in balance ), so i could retire from it. Then we gave admin rights to Ryu, and boom, we were gone Smile

Yes, i kinda "betrayed" people in relapse, cause i was fed up with their stupidity. So in a way, it was unbelievably stupid players and unbelievably stupid and corrupted ( clans ... ) that lead us to quit. As for the eye candy you criticized, i remember you using it also ... And after all, they liked it a lot.

The difference between an L2J player and L2OFF player is indeed vast. The difference in my stance ? I totally disrespect the L2OFF player. Stupid is the L2OFF player, who on average changes server every 2 weeks. How much did you last on sublimity ? How much in L2forever? How much in l2mxc ? The typical L2OFF player, thinks of him as a god. He runs from server to server, trash talking in the forums and his ONLY goal is to "show" his presense in forum and game to preserve his fame.

Clans dont join l2off cuase they are cool or something. What cool was there in L2Sublimity ? A site ? The gameplay was horrible, as you all found out later, it was a star wars where the guy with the best gear wins. The reason you joined sublimity, was cause you thought you all pro clans have an invisible contract that bonds you together, and every time a poop comes up, you all gotta go lick it to preserve your fame.

"B2B and Revelation will play here also."

How epic does that phrase sound, in more detail, the true words behind it are :

"B2B and Revelation , who we all know are super clans, are coming in teh server to show you how cool we are."

On the contrary, an L2J server, might not have that SUPER badass clans that use ventrillo and have their own forum and site. They are average clans, but with some feature and mod help they can produce greater gameplay than the pro clans. To back it up, christmas siege at Rune. The place was crowded, and every clan was attacking as a team. How ? Ally recall. Thats what makes L2J superior than L2OFF.

It doesnt have super pro kick-ass players and clans, but it gives you the ability, to change the game the way you want it. And by changing the game, you transform the average L2J player, to ironman ... And the average L2J clan to Spartans.

On the contrary, L2OFF has the top clans and players, but it has absolutelly useless gameplay and besides the lowrates the sieges in highrates are way off the hook. And guess what, the l2off cant do shit to change that, cause thats how L2OFF is Smile.


And to the developing side, since you have NO idea in here how things work , let me classify the servers too myself.

1)Lowrates, L2OFF or L2J:

Get the default files, set some shops, droplists, oly times and run the server. Average server preparation time: 1 day.

2) Mid-High rates L2OFF:

Get the default files, set some shops, droplists, custom farming zones and some custom coin and run the server. Average server preparation time: 2 days.

3) L2J Highrate

Setup the usuall as previous, go in maxcheaters or l2jserver, grab some CTF event patch, and some other custom patch someone else coded, add it to your pack , compile , run the server. Average server preparation time: 4 days.

4) L2Relapse.

Setup the usual, create bee engine, create unlock system, code all the unlocks, add bot protection, calibrate pvp with bee engine. Average server preparation time: 2-3 months.

Thats what i call a server. Together with L2TNS , we were the only servers that coded every single extension by ourselves and had by far lots of extra lines of code compared to other garbages. And when ppl disrespect a 3 months of free, hard work, just because they lost in one pvp, then we got all the rights to say to them :

"bye bye. "
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sat May 01, 2010 9:08 pm

Finobufferaki wrote:

I have to agree in the biggest part of that post, but in the first one I have to say that like 2 years ago, actually half of my school m8s played L2 and other MMORPG , now not even the 1/4 of that school m8s still plays. That proves that the games' circle reached its top and now it's dropping.

The fact that your friends stopped playing the game, is that they grown up , and found other interests. You wont stay young for ever. You still cant see it as i see. Just because you and your classmates stopped playing, that doesnt kill the game. I didnt stop playing cause the game died, i stopped cause i found developing more interesting. The game has at least 6 more years of life. As population drops, more servers will close also, so the population/server will stay the same. And it stays the same. There werent more players playing in interlude per server. The average good servers had around 1000. (And dont bring me that l2inc had 8000 in one server, cause i will puke right on my keyboard ).

Finobufferaki wrote:

I don't believe that it's a nostalgia thing to return back on a chronicle that passed cuz you achieved everything as a player, but because of it's prons and cons. At the very least, some doesn't want to see kamaels running around . It's a part of the gameplay.

Is that an excuse ? "I dont wanna see kamaels running around ? " That sounds like a girl saying, "i dont like that t-shirt cause it is blue ." This fact has absolutelly no credibility behind it, its just a way to find an excuse to blame the chronicle for your loss of peak.

And more of it, L2sublimity was interlude , what happened there with you ? L2Vendetta was interlude, what happened there with you ?

Seems that two of the interlude flagships failed hard (together with the community that played in there. ).
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sat May 01, 2010 9:53 pm

Chill dude, no one even attacked you.

To clear things up, I never believed that I had a peak period as a player in those years I am playing L2. There are sometimes I wonder why I am still here, I can't cope with that...

Referring to the kamael thing I said, it's not a personal excuse, I just brought it as an example alright? I could have said about hte new skills implented on the further chronicles. Sry poor me for my simple example.

Secondly, the fact that they were playing MMORPG doesn't make them my friends, nor classmates but school mates it's a different thing. A good amount of people to test the popularity of something, They left MMORPG obviously because they got older and found something more intresting than being part of a virtual world but on the other hand I didn't see new players coming in those games and ofc not talking about my school, talking generally for the place I am living in.

I see you have the tendency of supporting that MMORPG aren't dead. Who said they are? I didn't, and I believe that they aren't .Gaining/Losing popularity is a part of any game's circle. People changed their interest and that's a fact in this community. I personally still didn't lose my interest on them even though I lack in motivation these days.

Talking about Chronicles, I will state that I am not a fan of any specific, I played and loved every single one ofc playing with my homies here. I also believe that you feeling insecure about Relapse, that's why all those comparisons with the other servers. Every server is unique, with it's own good & bad things. Some servers didn't had a good DEV team, others didn't. I loved Relapse (in any views of it) and all the DEV team did a good job so what's the point of turning your insecurity into anger... For me Relapse was 1 of the best servers b2b joined and 1 of the best servers I played. You don't have to prove something here.

But I see this b2b's community problem already. Everybody is up for something and not willing to hear a different opinion, like they will lose something if they speak more peacefully. I don't wish to "discuss" furthermore. I won't be trippin' on writing essays nor attacking anybody because it's not only a man that can break bones with his power but with his language too.
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sat May 01, 2010 9:59 pm

@ Nimvh

I don't think you can compare L2 low rate with L2j high rate.

The game you are playing right now is made by a whole commercial company.
They have professional devs in their lines ... it's their job to create a game for you.
On retail you are paying for their work, you playing the game like it's ment to be.
Private servers are just abusing this work for their own profit. This is some kind of piracy in my eyes.

On the other hand you have L2j. Some kind of open source project.
Yea sure it is using the engine of ncsoft as well. The basic idea behind the game is the same,
but the gameplay is totaly diffrent. We are trying to balance the PvP for full buffed / geard players.
We are making it faster and trying to reduce the amount of farm time in order to accomplish something.
We are creating completly new features to enlarge the game in its possibilities.

Iam not saying L2j is better than L2off, coz at the end we can't compete with ncsofts work.
But just using their files, set a server up without doing anything new and earn a lot of money with this,
is just a money scam in my eyes and has nothing to do with "a free server for players".



Edit: Fino I don't think Issle attacked you. He said it more in general.

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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sat May 01, 2010 10:14 pm

Quote :
Iam not saying L2j is better than L2off, coz at the end we can't compete with ncsofts work.
+1.

But its advancing way too fast. Remember like 2-3 years ago where we all laughed and made fun of l2j ? Whos makin fun of l2j now eh ? Wink In competition , in private side ( not ncsoft ) , l2j has smashed l2off the last year.

As for the conversational problems with everyone rising opinions and being a specialist, judging servers, and developers work, please... become server owner and developer one day , as siege and i have, and then talk. Till you see things from the "inside", i believe your server-judging is a hilarious situation.

One of the problems , is everyone having opinion and giving out suggestion. Every player thinks he knows how a server should be. Well guess what, you know nothing. I was where you are a year ago, flaming admins, telling them how to run their server, guess what, i was wrong. If someone believes he has good ideas, cool suggestions that will make a good server, go buy a java book, and make a server yourself as we did. And then you will find out, how difficult it is to make a good server.

Servers arent made by words and suggestions. They are made from hard work.
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sun May 02, 2010 1:13 am

eh im not talking about l2off, that ancient shit cant even compete with newer l2j. oh and i never played on mxc, sublimity etc. only l2offs i have ever been on was l2gold and then vendetta for a while but that was just because many of us went there.

all i am saying is that players on l2relapse didnt fail or anything. how can a player fail? it doesnt make sense, its just a player. also im not saying that L2relapse was a bad server. you just started to do wrong things. if one br player makes stupid suggestion, others just troll him out. if half of the server is forced to yell at you on the forum, something is wrong. when you change the game mechanics in its foundation - mp - you have to expect that.

i know im just a n00b who never made a server and i never even saw a java code line, but let me say this.

you worked hard. i know that. i respect that. yet it was barely playable. you had serious problems with game mechanics, not being fixed for a long time. you had unbeveliably WRONG things there that were just ridicoulous and should have had highest priority to change.
on the other hand, we had all those features (ofcourse they were nice) you spent idontknowhowmany hours to create, ignoring real problems.

that is where you failed. priorities. but im sure its going to change. after l2relapse you have much more experience and l2arena is a great example of that.
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sun May 02, 2010 1:20 am

As soon as you are becoming an admin and stop playing the server by yourself, you ll loose the touch to the priorities.
True story :/

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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sun May 02, 2010 1:21 am

Siege wrote:
As soon as you are becoming an admin and stop playing the server by yourself, you ll loose the touch to the priorities.
True story :/

the mistakes you've done once, won't be done again
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sun May 02, 2010 10:56 am

Lol, OT ftw.

Anyways, I'll rephrase my last post:

Do you think you won't loose motivation after 2 months again?


You are doing right things, testing stuff out etc. and not rushing into things, but we all know how hard it is to balance L2 and do you think you wouldn't loose your mood to do something after endless complaints, whines etc.?

P.S. Issle, don't pop-up with 'you've never been a dev', I mean the personal experience everyone had by changing servers, I don't think anyone has found fully balanced one.
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sun May 02, 2010 10:58 am

Fury wrote:


Do you think you won't loose motivation after 2 months again?


If we are doing a lot of mistakes again during the meanwhile... probably.
But this time we can look back at our old project and try to avoid some of them already in the beginning

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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Sun May 02, 2010 11:55 pm

You use words the meaning of which you dont fully understand. Define "fully balanced" please. Cause when it comes to balance, ill give you what ppl really have as an instinct term inside their hearts:


"Balance is, when i win in pvp.".

Thats what most ppl think of balance. When they lose in pvp, they think the server is unbalanced. And there are many other terms that suit to everyones style of playing.

"Balance is, when my archer can beat all the other classes".

"OMG summoner winning my archer ? Server sux, lolserver balance".

"WTF 3k dmg from mage crits ? LOLRELAPSE".

Balance opinions coming from players are 90% biased based on their style and their class. Thats why EA for example, does not announce the balance tweaks they do in their games each update. For example, they released a new Bad Company 2 patch last week and in they changelog they included every bug fix and proformance issue, but they didnt include ANY changes they did in the games balance ( and they did many ).

When asked from players in the official forums of EA, why was there no changelog about gameplay, some of the EA staff replied:

"People tend to be biased about changes, so we preffer to let them figure them out by themselves, instead of telling them anything."
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Mon May 03, 2010 12:44 am

Hello people...what's up?
Just ask, when L2arena will be open?
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Mon May 03, 2010 1:28 am

Your prejudice is always right and fully ego-centered.

Fully balanced server is the server where everyone is able to play and the pvp capability of everyone must depend on their skills instead of gear or class. And "fully balanced" term includes the playability of every class too. That's what I think. And stop crying that no one understands a thing and accusing me just because I belong to clan which has some members that said something bad about your server back then when you didn't accept critics (dunno if you do now). I don't say everything was constructive or valid, but I can't say opposite either.




Siege, that's reasonable enough. It's all I wanted to hear. Your prejudice towards new project.
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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Mon May 03, 2010 4:15 am

my personal balance definition is:

"As long as you have a chance to DECIDE a battle, doesn't matter which class you are playing, the server is balanced."

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PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Mon May 03, 2010 10:03 am

Well you said what I mean in short. I know that you can't make server totally independent of gear.


Anyways, I think one more priority thing should be the 'time consumers' like raids, castles etc. Because relapse kinda had the things, that have to be on an attractive server, but they weren't as attractive as they should be. I mean the raiding part wasn't so great. And all together there were kinda few things to do w/o the regular pvp and farming. It's hard tho think of something when you are using L2 as a source for the ideas, but w/o really exciting activities L2 kinda doesn't have the mmorpg mojo lol.

I've played WoW recently. There, if you want, you can do kinda a lot of stuff (like just sitting in a bar and chatting/getting drunk or exploring new locations). I was thinking, would it be possible to make something like exploring rewards in L2? For example you pick some unusual locations where private servers players rarely go and place a reward for people who visits the location. For the faster access of distant areas you could add some not expensive potions, that temporarily increases running speed which lasts for like 10 mins unless you get hit by player. Or temp mounts.

For example: Monastery of silence upper floors. Nice view etc.

The things that I though of which could help for the idea:
1. 'Exploring zone' could mean using some skill on a object which is placed in a location.
2. The object's location could be a clue in some .explore window.
3. The reward could be just minor or it might even be more interesting if you could level from like level 20 to 80 just by exploring few hours.

(4 is kinda some other ideas related to previous things)
4. Disabling titles and letting players to get one only by paying for some item in shop which would allow you to get usual title(there are some event items that allows you to add title, they could be used as a base) or by doing stuff which is kind of questing. Exploring would be a part of that. You would get some kewl titles for exploring more or less and different colors even if it looks kinda BR, but it has to be different from original color. Also this could lead to different uses of titles which were introduced on other servers, but are not really that common. Like pvp titles, clan titles, title/name colors. Explorer's hats, pvper's agathions, explorer's mounts, fireworks, scrolls, money everything is possible. Raids, castles, even forts or clan halls... Nolifer status, pvp master status whatever comes to mind.

Also I hope you do understand, that this 'idea' is not for exploring/pvping only. It might be useful for other things, it could just be the base of server's entertainment system.


I know, that it's probably too much work/impossible to do, but that's my idea, perhaps it could attract players to try something which hasn't been introduced yet.


It's not a top priority thing ofc. Balance n' shit must be done first.


Anyways, I am just trying to contribute my idea.
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Guapo
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Registration date : 2010-02-18

PostSubject: Re: L2Arena   Mon May 03, 2010 11:18 am

I like the idea.. I will help when I have some time..
Well, I wouldn't need anything to fight for on a server.. pvp all the time is perfect to me. dunno maybe a team /duel raising some stuff.. maybe some fair augments
monthly 9v9 events would be cool
can't think of much stuff atm..
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